Directors Q & A
How did this film come about?
Until relatively recently my knowledge of Viet Nam was mainly limited to the American ‘Vietnam War’ movies of the 70’s and 80’s. So when my son settled in Hanoi, married a Vietnamese national and gifted me a beautiful Vietnamese granddaughter, I was intreagued to find out more about the culture and history of a country I knew very little about. So I visited Viet Nam a number of times, travelling from South to North on the ‘Reunification’ railway and talking to as many Vietnamese people as I could - young and old, North and South - about their thoughts on the war time years as well as modern Viet Nam and the future. And during one of these visits I came across the English publication of the diaries of Dang Thuy Tram entitled ‘Last Night I Dreamed of Peace’. I found it a profoundly moving personal account of the experience from the ‘other side’; the North Vietnamese side. And its back story of the diary being saved and returned to the family many years afterwards by a US soldier is a remarkable and touching story of reconciliation in itself. The diaries (there were two) had been published to wide acclaim in Viet Nam when the story first emerged in 2006 and a feature film subsequently made by Vietnamese director Dang Nhat Minh called ‘Dung Dot’ (Don’t Burn). So it was a story well known in Vietnam. But less so in the UK. So the idea was borne of bringing it specifically to a UK and wider English speaking audience through a short film.
What particularly resonated with you about this story?
Diaries are particularly powerful snippets of history. Thuy’s diary was written to be read by her alone. It is raw, uncensored direct testimony from that time. I read an article by Vietnamese author Viet Thanh Nguyen where he points out that “all wars are fought twice -once in the battlefield, then in the memory”. And he refers to Hollywood as America’s unofficial ‘Ministry of Propoganda’. And I have some sympathy for this view. Of course propoganda is not the preserve of any one nation. It is present on all sides and it is often difficult to get a real sense of the actual truth, a truth that will look different depending which side you are on. In this context, a diary is a jewel; something far more powerful than commentary, opinion or official dogma. It is in essence a simple record of personal experience. Of course some diaries are more readable than others. And what is interesting about Thuy is that when she was younger she was fascinated by literature and poetry and wanted to become a writer. It was only with the war intensifying that she decided, with the help of her father, a surgeon himself, to study medicine with a view to helping the war effort. So whilst her diary is written in the emotional and ‘sentimental’ language of the day, and from the perspective of a young woman with all her hopes and dreams still in front of her, it is eminently readable as a piece of literature in itself and one that makes frequent poetic and other literary references throughout. Thuy Tram has, with good reason, been described as “the Vietnamese Anne Frank”, and bearing in mind the diary was written under extreme duress in terrible circumstances and conditions, it is indeed, in a similar vein to Anne Frank, a remarkable piece of writing.
Some believe that this story (and others like it) has been used by the Vietnamese government as propaganda to glorify the wartime sacrifices of the North in order to perpetuate their one party rule. What do you say to that?
Of course the benefit of a personal diary (unless of course you think it has been invented or doctored for propaganda purposes – which some conspiracy theorists do) is that, by its very nature, it is free from propaganda. That is the whole point. If governments try to co-opt it for their own ends then so be it. And of course the historical roots of one-party rule run far deeper and more profound than a single diary or the glorification of wartime sacrifices (show me a government that doesn’t glorify wartime sacrifices? – and frankly the Vietnamese government probably has more justification than most to do so bearing in mind their terrible history of war and occupation for most of the previous century, in particular by the French).
This is a film made with my eyes wide open. Having grown up in the 70’s and 80’s bombarded with US Vietnam war movies, this ‘Vietnamese’ story (in which Thuy herself criticizes the communist authorities on many occasions), and others like it, deserves a wider audience beyond Vietnam and the US. I am of course well aware that this story is widely known in Viet Nam including by those foreigners fortunate enough to have spent time in the country. Which is why this film is specifically made for an English-speaking audience with the aim of sharing her story with a less familiar UK audience.
I have now travelled to Viet Nam on a number of occasions – North and South - and it has been a privilege to get to know both the Tram family and the US Soldier Frederick Whitehurst and his brother Robert. I have been hugely impressed with all of them. They are intelligent and worldly and well aware that governments of all persuasions would seek to use the story for their own ends but in the end recognised that this tale, at its simplest, of courage, sacrifice, reunion and reconciliation was a tale worth telling. I agree. Indeed it would be a disservice to the memory of this brave young woman to refrain from sharing her story through some politically correct fear of being a mouthpiece for government.
What do you hope that people will take away from this film?
It is not for me to dictate what the audience will take away from a film. Everyone will have their own take on it. And I am in no position whatsoever to make judgements on the rights or wrongs of this war, in which I had no direct involvement or connection. Moreover it is very easy to slip into a sentimental portrayal that smooths over the complex and bloody realities of conflict. Having said that, from a personal point of view, I hope it serves as a small addition to media that helps to encourage a reflection by people outside of Viet Nam of the North Vietnamese experience in particular during this period and a rehumanising of that experience, for too long often simplistically depicted in terms of a shadowy, detached ‘inhumane’ Vietcong.
Why do you refer to the conflict as simply the ‘War’ in Viet Nam?
I have no direct involvement in conflicts in Viet Nam. And I do not feel in a position to make judgements. I am fully aware that the history of war in Viet Nam is far more nuanced than the US, Vietnamese authorities or anyone else would have us believe. There are many ways in which to describe the period of circa 1954-1975 in Viet Nam. These include the Vietnam War, the American War in Vietnam and the Second Indochina War. However, commentators such as Viet Thanh Nguyen have pointed out that all of these descriptions are problematic. Obviously the Vietnam War is a US centric expression. But referring to it as the American war also fails to recognise the involvement, memory and experience of a range of other participants in the region including North Vietnamese, South Vietnamese, Laos, Cambodian, Korean, Australian, Chinese, Russian etc. Moreover this period can be seen as another chapter in a war that began as resistance against French occupation many years before. Nguyen correctly points out that when you talk to veterans of that period in Viet Nam they often simply refer to it as the ‘war’. So that is what I have chosen to do.
Can you tell us a little about the contributors, Mrs Tram and Ta Thi Ninh and their anecdotes you selected for the film…
Yes, It will not be lost on the viewer that the Vietnamese protagonists of this film are all women - Doan Ngoc Tram, Ta Thi Ninh and of course Dang Thuy Tram herself. An apt and fitting reflection I think of the prominent role played by Vietnamese women not only during wartime but in Vietnamese culture & society generally.
I have to admit I was a little nervous about contacting Doan Tram, Thuy’s mother about this project. I was aware that the family had already attracted a great deal of publicity over the diaries in Viet Nam and I wondered whether she might be a little media weary or at least ‘wary’. I needn’t have worried. She couldn’t have been more welcoming or interested in the project and with the help of her daughter, Kim Tram, and her niece as interpreters, we were able to talk about Thuy and the family story at length. I think she warmed to me once she knew that I had Vietnamese family of my own and was supportive of the idea of bringing her daughters story to a UK/English speaking audience.
At that time, during the war, The Tram family, though not wealthy by any means, were intellectuals. Thuy’s father was a respected surgeon and Doan Tram was herself a respected lecturer in pharmacy at a University in Hanoi and an expert in the use of traditional plant medicine. In my interviews with both Doan Tram and Ta Thi Ninh it became evident that this knowledge of traditional medicine became an important part of Thuy’s contribution whilst she worked in Duc Pho. Ninh told me about surgical operations that were often carried out without anaesthetic and non existent medical facilities at the time when Thuy arrived. She told me of how Thuy established medical clinics across the district, with two paramedics in each village, training up nurses and encouraging villagers to grow ‘medicinal’ plants. Her mothers influence here was obvious and it seemed to me that this was an important part of Thuy’s ‘wartime’ story. A skill passed down from mother to daughter and utilised in at a time when it was most needed. So I do focus on this as one of the main themes. Thuy’s dedication to her patients welfare and her skilled practical contribution to the war effort.
Have Frederick and Robert Whitehurst been supportive of this project?
This story would of course have never have emerged if it were not for the saving and return of the diaries to the family by the Whitehurst brothers. Their meticulous research and years of dedication in relation to the diaries have been life changing for the families involved and a heartwarming example of post conflict reconciliation. It is clear that in all their dealings with the Vietnamese people they have shown extraordinary sensitivity and humility (both from the Vietnamese and US perspective) and I am hugely grateful that they have been fully supportive of this project. This is a story that truly gets under your skin and as Fred* points out, we are all Thuy’s ‘puppets’ now.
* Fred is no stranger to the ‘extraordinary’. He went on to become one of the most celebrated Whistleblowers in US history when he exposed the huge scandal of forensic flaws in the FBI Crime Lab that had led to many wrongful convictions.
In contrast to many Vietnam war films, this film is notable for its absence of many visuals of soldiers, fighting, corpses etc?
Yes. All of those things are of course part and parcel of war and are the reality of war. However I was very clear from the outset that the point of this film was to convey a quieter, more intimate, reflective, personal portrait of experience that existed in Thuy’s mind amidst the noise and the horror and the planes and helicopters and gunfire and death and destruction all around. In her diary Thuy gives us unique access to her personal thoughts and feelings, whether it be unrequited love, frustration with the local communist party, longings for home and family, anger at the ‘enemy’, desperation for her patients, or fear of death. The reality is (and directors know it) that gory visuals and military visuals tend to dominate any scene as well as reinforce (subconciously or not) the pervasive narrative of might and strength of the controller of that military hardware. Which is why the only brief animated image of a military jet plane is unmarked. Ultimately it is not the fact it is a US jet fighter plane that makes it terrifying. It is the fact that it is a fighter jet plane -something that citizens in Iraq or Yemen or any other war zone will testify to. So, whilst there are some brief bombing scenes, instead of using visuals I felt that some carefully placed audio of war time sounds was generally sufficient to invoke the environment that Thuy found herself in, without distracting from the primary focus of the film.
The film could be described as bordering on the sentimental. Is this intentional?
The film is unashamedly sentimental. And yes this is intentional. Thuy herself wrote in the flowery, sentimental language of the day and the essence of this story is that although Thuy had been forced to grow up fast and operate as a professional surgeon in very difficult circumstances, the diary reveals the personal emotional longings, hopes and unfulfilled dreams of a young person living in constant fear of their life. This is not cold history, or documentary or fact. This is thoughts and feelings…basic humanity. And the film tries to reflect this.
Why did you opt for hand drawn style animation?
From the outset I had in mind this type of hand crafted animation. And I had seen some of May Kindred Boothby’s work on other projects and knew that this was what I wanted for this film. There is a beautiful simplicity to her style and interpretation. And the dynamic background is intended to evoke the chaos and turmoil all around her jungle environment.
Can you say something about the timing of the release of this film and the wider relevance of the war today?
It is well known in historical documentary circles that 50 years after a terrible or controversial period or event is often the optimal time to write or making a documentary about it. It is a short enough time for the protagonists to still remember what happened, whilst being far enough into history for people to open up and talk frankly about it (and viewers to face it). In this case my hope was for the film to be released in 2020 to mark the 50th anniversary of Thuy’s death. However this proved to be an ambitious timetable, particularly bearing in the global pandemic and other external factors outside my control. So 2021 it is.
In terms of relevance, there is something in particular that I would like to say on this, something very relevant to my current journalism focus. Many will know of the enormous human cost of the war in Viet Nam, on all sides. And this is of course at the heart of this film. But what is perhaps less well known is that the war in Viet Nam was the catalyst for starting a debate on recognising environmental destruction as a crime in itself. There is a striking line in Thuy’s diary (18th June 1970) where she says, “The forest in the evening is terrifyingly quiet. Not a single bird chirps”. The bombs and chemical defoliants used during the war decimated the bird populations of Viet Nam and many Vietnamese commented on the eerie quiet, and on how sad they felt in the absence of birdsong. Viet Nam was not the first conflict in which the environment suffered widespread destruction. However it was the first that was televised and beamed around the world. And the world was shocked at the massive and indiscriminate use of the defoliant Agent Orange by US forces, referred to by commentators as ‘ecocidal warfare’. This sparked a debate in the early 1970’s that eventually led to the inclusion of Ecocide as an international war crime in the Rome Statute. In the light of the current climate & ecological emergency, there are growing calls for Ecocide to also now be made an international crime in peacetime, something that I am actively supporting through my journalism and filmmaking. This is one example (of many) of how the war in Viet Nam is still as relevant today as it ever was.
The film is being promoted in support of Blue Dragon Children’s Foundation. What is your connection with them?
Yes I like my films to have direct impact in some way. And I have previously made a short film for this Hanoi based organisation and can vouch for them personally. They do incredible and dangerous work in rescuing child victims of human trafficking and street children in Viet Nam. There is no direct connection between this film and the work of Blue Dragon. However there is a connection. This film highlights Thuy’s compassion for her patients and the people around her and Thuy’s mother talks about how the diary shows the ‘spirit’ of the Vietnamese people. Nothing represents this better than the work of Blue Dragon and the resilience of the children it rescues and supports. If you like the film (or even if you don’t!) I would urge you to visit their website at bluedragon.org to learn more about them and to support their work.
Is there anything else you want to add?
Watch the film and I hope you enjoy it!
Rupert Bedford, Director
April 2021